Paddle-Fishing.Com Super Kayak Slam - snook discussion

[Rik]

We're doing another 321Fish online tournament in August. This one is a double slam format - 2 redfish, 2 trout, 2 snook.

This one has a twist. No, it's not ladyfish or catfish or lizardfish - although I did consider it.... This will be the Old versus New tournament that was discussed in the CRB poll thread in the West Coast Fishing Reports section.

The format for the Old versus New isn't fancy. If you have been a member of Paddle-Fishing.com for 2 years or less on August 1st, you are on the New team. Longer than 2 years, the Old team. Has nothing to do with age, experience gray hair or not.

The team that wins gets bragging rights. The New guys get to show that New doesn't mean Noob. The Old guys get to show that Old doesn't mean, well, old. I'll have a thread up that shows which team each participant is on.

And you get a trophy you can print out and hang on your wall. Start recruiting your team!

[John]

Snook?

[sfurman]

I got some grief over snook too. The fish we fish for all inhabit the same waters and eat the same lures, if snook are eliminated then you might as well not fish. Snook will be caught as bycatch, so why not include them in the tournament. The FWC has removed snook from take for the year for now. That is enough to protect them basically as much as they can be protected, again unless you stop fishing all together. I understand the concern for targeting snook but, I doubt their numbers are in that bad of shape. They were hit hard there is no denying that but, part of the reason for the tight regulations prior to the freeze was to help prepare the population for such an event, not to mention making them more abundant. I have no problem with snook in a catch and release tournament, especially one that uses artificial lures which makes it even more difficult to catch the darn things. My $0.02.

I have been getting lots of good reports on snook, they still have a ways to go but they are going great.

[BryanS]

I've seen and caught more healthy Snook in Hernando and Citrus this year than in the last 5 years. Below is a little guy I caught a few days ago getting ready for the tourney!

I have to do a little pre-fishing this week to help pull one out for the new crew.

[John]

The fish we fish for all inhabit the same waters and eat the same lures, if snook are eliminated then you might as well not fish. Snook will be caught as bycatch, so why not include them in the tournament.

The last tournament did not have Snook included it had Ladyfish, it was a successful tournament, I didn't hear anyone say they wouldn't fish it due to Snook not being included.

If they are caught as "bycatch" they wouldn't be kept out of the water and put on a measuring board and photographed during the spawning season.

I've seen many people on this site voice concern about people targeting catch and release Snook during spawning season on the beaches, and that was before the freeze of the last two winters caused such widespread damage.

I understand the concern for targeting snook but, I doubt their numbers are in that bad of shape. They were hit hard there is no denying that but, part of the reason for the tight regulations prior to the freeze was to help prepare the population for such an event, not to mention making them more abundant.

As you say the tight regulations were put in place before the freeze, as they were already reasons for concerns for the population, so then we get the freeze(s) for two successive winters and now you think they are not in that bad of shape? That makes no sense to me.

Of course Snook are going to caught, those that are left are still going to eat, no changing that, but removing them from the water and putting them on a board, during the hottest part to the year, while they are in the middle of spawning season, doesn't sit well with me.

The last tourney included ladyfish in place of Snook, I applauded that move it made great sense.

I am merely voicing my concern, about targeting a species while the FWC has a declared a moratorium on them, due to the precarious state of the fishery. I don't care how you argue it, there is enough concern for the population for none to be permitted to be taken, and no matter how quick or careful you are, the fish will suffer more stress by being put on a measuring board and photgraphed than it would if it was instantly released.

[jbdba01]

How about we self regulate and those that are in the tourney determine what the third specie is? Easily done by having a poll.

[sfurman]

As you say the tight regulations were put in place before the freeze, as they were already reasons for concerns for the population, so then we get the freeze(s) for two successive winters and now you think they are not in that bad of shape? That makes no sense to me.

I hear you John and I appreciate the responce but there was no reason for concern for the population, actually Ron Taylor who is the FWC snook biologist did not feel the need for the increased SPR to 40% in fact he was aginst it, as far as I can tell he never felt that it needed to be any more than 30% and was fine with the 28% at the time. It was really our concern more than anything and our desire to get the population numbers up to improve abundance. Our = CCA that is. The 40% SPR was set a long time ago but the FWC was not willing to make the necessary changes to the regulations to get the stock there. CCA forced the issue with FWC to the protests of most other groups.

I personnaly would be fine with lady fish if that is what Rik wants to do but I don't think there is a problem targeting snook either. Actually I did not get that much greif, only a couple folks voiced concern. I tried to get more feed back and the responces I got were anywhere from "are you serious?" to "obviously these people haven't done any snook fishing, they're everywher". Not sure I agree with that but, I don't think there is a need to exclude them. Targeting any fish in the summer even for catch and release is going to result in an increased release mortality, that is a fact but, first you have to hook them.

[John]

I think you need to check your sources Steve

This is a direct quote from Ron Taylor's FWC Snook Management Essay

"In 1993, the FMFC established a management goal of maintaining a minimum SPR of 40% for snook populations on both coasts of Florida. This level is higher than the levels adopted for other inshore species in Florida e.g., red drum, spotted seatrout, and mullet,
but it is warranted because snook are vulnerable to cold kills coupled with the uncertainties associated with managing a protandric hermaphrodite."

[DouGR81]

This is a small tournament..The snook population is not going to get crushed if 10 people target them for a month.

[sfurman]

Thanks John, I am not denying that at all and there were more reasons than that to raise the SPR to 40%. To say he was against it is probably a bad choice of words but, he didn’t support it for the reasons the commission wanted it although a freeze event was one of the reasons for pushing for support of the 40% SPR and Ron could get behind that. The fishery was never in any trouble at all. The commission was concerned about the many claims that people were not catching enough big fish and the changes in the slot limit was also made to help improve the size of the fish. The SPR was raised to 40% by the commission, not Ron and not from any requests made by Ron however Ron’s point in the essay is certainly valid and I support it along with the commissions desire to improve the fishery.

The fastest way, although not always the most popular way, to get a fishery to recover from overfishing or red tide or a freeze or in this case back to the 40% SPR is to basically stop fishing for them. Catch and release is the next best thing which is what the FWC is doing. There is no moratorium on fishing, they are not forbidding us from fishing for them, they are only forbidding us from keeping them. There is still mortality or “take” associated with that though. Your point about removing them from the water and photographing them is a valid one and I agree with you on that I just don’t think it will prevent the fishery from recovering at any faster rate than the closure from take that is currently in place. Again I think it is just fine for them to be part of a CPR tournament and especially one that uses artificial lures.

I shoulda went snook fishing this morning instead of yard work.

[ZeroSix]

I'm in - I'll register this week.

[John]

We can agree to disagree Steve and opinions are like assholes, we've all got them and they all stink.

Your point about removing them from the water and photographing them is a valid one and I agree with you on that I just don’t think it will prevent the fishery from recovering at any faster rate than the closure from take that is currently in place. Again I think it is just fine for them to be part of a CPR tournament and especially one that uses artificial lures.

I guess I could be seen as a Snook Hugger, or whatever people may want to call it, but given the precarious nature of the population I think we should not be removing and photographing them. Be it only a small tournament, but the fatality of one breeder female could mean the removal of several thousand future Snook from the population. Let's be honest here, no matter how good or quick you are you are going to be stressing that fish and removing at least some of it's protective slime once it gets laid on a measuring board. If we have 10 guys catch keeper Snook, and 2 die from a result that is still 2 more than would have died if they were not part of this tourney.

Before the freezes of the last two winters I used to target Snook on the beaches, after not being able to kayak due to my back injury it was about the best shot I had of enjoying some good Snook fishing. I was openly criticised on this board, for targeting these fish, even though I was fishing artificials on heavy tackle, fighting them quickly without removing the fish from the water and never dragging them up on the sand. It was said "I think it's wiser to leave these fish alone during spawning season" and here they are putting them on the list for a site tournament.

I've said my piece, and I have searched out advice from other people within the FWC for there opinion, I will relay their thoughts.

[sfurman]

Not sure who was criticizing you but I am pretty sure I wasn’t part of that. I try not to do that kind of thing. As long as you are not breaking the law I am good with it. If you want to fish for and keep every snook you catch I am fine with it as long as you operate within the law, if you want to fish for and hug every snook you catch I am fine with that too, except I would recommend you wet your hands first. The regulations should be sufficient to take care of any problems otherwise they need changing.

I do unfortunately have an opinion and sadly I find it hard sometimes to keep it to myself. I hope you understand and I appreciate your point of view on this matter, I actually want to hear what others think but it don’t mean I am willing to jump on anyone’s band wagon unless they can prove to me that what they want is really necessary. Usually it is just what you said, an opinion.

Keep us posted.

[John]

No it wasn't you criticizing me Steve, and we are all entitled to our opinion. We can also agree to disagree and remain civil which is refreshing. I'm not asking you to jump on my bandwagon either.

But I can tell you that through my own fishing and that of others, some of whom are on the water almost daily that Snook catches are way down even incidental catches.

[sfurman]

But I can tell you that through my own fishing and that of others, some of whom are on the water almost daily that Snook catches are way down even incidental catches.

Thanks, I know that as a fact.