Does Chumming harm the fishery?

[GILs_GONE_WILD]

I heard corn kills fish.

Cordell,

Not sure if it's true but I've heard the same thing. Particularly in the mountain trout states. People cannot digest corn so why would we think a fish could. Of course if you're "meat fishing", then corn is a good bait for the hungry mountain angler. Just don't dump the half can of corn that you didn't use in the stream.

Can anyone clarify this belief about corn killing fish?

[Erick]

The thread title and the question on the poll are too very different questions. One ask does it 'harm' and the other ask has it 'changed'. Possibly it has had some effect in both ways but I do not believe near as much as the number of total anglers in Florida, the destruction of fishing habitat, over development in coastal areas and the pollution of our waters. So my answer is no, because chumming has been going on for many many years. Using a whiffle bat to throw it is fairly new though.

Funny though, back in my grandfather and fathers day, when there was zero catch and release, and few if any regulations on harvest.....they caught 20x as many fish as I catch today. And they kept everything, and so did everyone else.

[srsfsu]

Possibly it has had some effect in both ways but I do not believe near as much as the number of total anglers in Florida, the destruction of fishing habitat, over development in coastal areas and the pollution of our waters. So my answer is no, because chumming has been going on for many many years. Using a whiffle bat to throw it is fairly new though.

[Blindmullet]

Mel Berman posed another question: Stunned bait fish swim around as chummers much like red tide stunned baitfish swim around. So are the chummies teaching the fish to stay in a harmful algae bloom instead of reading that as a signal to move out of there?

For example, I have a theory that if you stick your thumb in a snook's love hole that he/she equates this to pleasure and therefore associates people with good times.

Does it matter if you wet your hands first and do you need to keep them in the water....should I hold my breath while I do it

[Erick]

^ that quote did make me laugh......

[srsfsu]

Does it matter if you wet your hands first and do you need to keep them in the water....should I hold my breath while I do it

Depends. How much have they had to drink and are they wearing a halter top? Wait, are we talking about snook? I am confused.

[John]

I have the greatest respect for Captain Mel, but Mel's comment is pretty darn ridiculous, just look at it owns contradictions.

Fish are eating "Chummed" baits, so often, that they then begin to equate stunned fish as "free safe food", so much so that they then would hang around in red tide areas to eat, when they see stunned fish, totally over-riding their ingrained survival instinct and their need for oxygen

This statement asusmes that fish have the power to reason or at least the ability to learn by association, so by that rationale, it also makes sense that they would learn or at least associate, eating stunned fish leads to being hooked and caught, so by then why wouldn't they stop eating stunned fish.

I think far too many people, give way too much credence to the suggestion of fish having the ability to learn, if they could learn they wouldn't get caught more than once, especially on artificials.
We tend to anthropomorphize a fishes instinctual behaviour to behaviour determined by reasoning.


As for the original threads question, does it harm the fishery, that's something of a misnomer too? What does that mean, does it harm the fish, or does it harm the fishing?

All this extra free food that is being distributed to the fish, makes it easier for them to eat, without expending energy, so if they can now eat without working for it, they must surely grow quicker and faster, which in turn would improve the fishery.

However to the question of "does chumming harm the fishing", I would say for artificial users, it must have some deleterious effect, with free easy to eat food being presented to them on a very regular basis, the fish are less likely to expend energy chasing a lure.
However does it harm the fishing for bait users, obviously not as by chumming they catch more fish?

I personally would not want to take a guided trip and sling baits, but most guided fishermen, or to quote Bucaroo, people who use "Paid fishing Buddies" (which always makes me smile, as Buc takes trips with paid fishing buddies every year) are out of towners, who have laid out considerable money to sample Florida fishing, and they want to catch fish, and that is made considerably easier by chumming baits.

As for harming the bait fish stocks, I don't believe for one minute that baitfish in Tampa Bay are in peril. Just take a ride out to the middle of the bay or under the Skyway and you will find acres of bait, and it's been like that all year long.

I haven't been catching any extraordinarily skinny fish either, which they would be, if there wasn't enough bait around for them to eat.

[LivelyBaits]

It wasn't even Mel's theory. It was something that he brought up during a seminar we were doing. I'd have to ask him whose theory it was. I was caught off guard by that one and all I could say was that I would have to think about that one. I have and while I don't think that there is any connection, I have been in active fish kills and seen fish coming up to eat the stunned baits.

Redfish that perished in the 2005 bloom often had pinfish jammed in their throats. I wondered if that was regurgitation from the red tide affects or if it was redfish that were continuing to feed with no knowledge that they were actually dying.

[Kingslayer]

Chumming isn't going to hurt the fishery. It's not going to make the fish learn to only eat injured bait, it's not going to teach them to drool when they hear the livewell hatch slam and it's not going to teach them to stay around during red time blooms.

Chumming does nothing outside the fish's natural realm of what it already does.

Now, taking 200 head of bait x how many hundreds of fisherman per day IS going to impact the amount of bait. How much is a pretty good debate down in the Pt. Charlotte area. People say the fisherman are hurting the amount of bait in the area but last year the bait was so thick in the harbor you could walk across it. I personally saw threadfin schools over 1/4 in diameter.

This year has been a decent bait year also, not as good as last year, but bait isn't hard to find.

[Erick]

Well put John.

[Rik]

Chummed fish become trained fish. You don't need to look very far to see this. Tarpon at Robby's in the keys, snook at dozens of tourist docks and bait shops around the bay and several well known chum spots in the bay.

Pres Bush 1 was a big fisherman and used to visit Boca Grande. The security folks would shut down Bull Bay for several days prior to his visit and all during his visit. Several guides would go out and chum up about a dozen spots a couple times each day on the days prior to his visit. When he showed up, they'd go out to those spots and, like magic, the fish would be there waiting for food - this time with a hook in it.

There were many that were eager to hit those same spots the day after he left. Me included.

My guess would be that chumming in and of itself is not harmful. However, as most fishermen go back to the same spots over and over filling it with food, I would suppose that fish in those spots get trained.

This training at heavily chummed spots probably isn't good as it changes the natural feeding activities of the fish. They get lazy.

IMO, a good chum should be a slick that draws in fish, not feed them. In this way, the fishermen gets his fish and the fish do not get fed. I would think this would help to preserve the natural feeding habits.

[srsfsu]

I think we are giving fish too much credit. Fish feed out of instinct. Fish are dumb. Nothing annoys me more than when people start giving fish super-fish powers.

[Rik]

I think we are giving fish too much credit. Fish feed out of instinct. Fish are dumb. Nothing annoys me more than when people start giving fish super-fish powers.

Fish are dumb, to a point.

Why do hundreds of fish hang out at Robbie's in the keys?

Why does the Stump Pass Marina have hundreds of snook under their dock? The neighboring docks don't have near the concentration.

Why does the Cajun Cafe have hundreds of catfish by the deck?

Answer - they get fed. They are not so dumb that they can't be trained to frequent a place where they get fed.

[Blindmullet]

Do fish not have migratory patterns anymore? Does 'chumming' put a wrinkle into this pattern? When a storm comes through and pushes some fish off of a wreck do they starve becuase the Florida Fisherman or another head boat isn't feeding them? If chumming causes fish to become pets I would think Redington Pier, Desoto Pier and the Skyway would yield more quality fish.

[shamus]

Not giving fish super powers. Fish are predators and a predator will hang around an area that holds easy pickings. If the guides stop chumming a certain area for several weeks that spot wouldn't hold as many predators. It's the idea behind fish staging in a deep area waiting for a Flat to flood over so they can gain access to food.

[Rik]

Do fish not have migratory patterns anymore?

Does 'chumming' put a wrinkle into this pattern?

When a storm comes through and pushes some fish off of a wreck do they starve becuase the Florida Fisherman or another head boat isn't feeding them?

If chumming causes fish to become pets I would think Redington Pier, Desoto Pier and the Skyway would yield more quality fish.

Yes they do

I doubt it. Migration is not necessarily an eating thing.

No, they eat naturally

Did I say pets? They'll go where the eating is easy. Hence the fish at places like Robbies. Interesting point about the piers. Do folks chum off the piers?