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Tallahassee needs a Potomac River

Rik wrote:Tallahassee needs a Potomac River

Better a Delaware, see ya Christmas eve?

Just got an email from the FWC. They are listening and reading this thread. They asked that we also consider the following in our suggestions and comments.

ADA accessibility

Protection of resources

No parking = no access

Funding sources

Rik wrote:Just got an email from the FWC. They are listening and reading this thread. They asked that we also consider the following in our suggestions and comments.

ADA accessibility

Protection of resources

No parking = no access

Funding sources

Funding sources..... How about a local tackle/kayak shop have the abitlity to sponsor a launch kind of like adopt a highway? I made a suggestion to have a trail be named trail to Ford springs. At the end of the trail there would be a pair of Ford truck springs with an sponsors sign. Dealerships spend thousands of dollars a year for advertizing why not allow the dollars be spent for community pleasure. Of course the idea was never considered do to the crassness or thought of a sign in the great outdoors.

Rik wrote:Just got an email from the FWC. They are listening and reading this thread. They asked that we also consider the following in our suggestions and comments.

ADA accessibility
Protection of resources
No parking = no access
Funding sources

It's great to know the FWC is listening.
I'm surprised that ADA accessibility is a concern here - how many handicapped kayakers are there?? Or is this just a legal issue with no practical application? All those extra amenities cost big bucks, and the supposed beneficiaries will be few and far between.
As for protection of resources, having a nearby trash can is always nice. Otherwise, non-motorized boaters are protecting resources ipso-facto.
Parking doesn't have to be a big amenity. Look at Cockroach Bay - enough space to pull over on the road shoulder is all you need.

Evan wrote: I'm surprised that ADA accessibility is a concern here - how many handicapped kayakers are there?? Or is this just a legal issue with no practical application? All those extra amenities cost big bucks, and the supposed beneficiaries will be few and far between.

You might be suprised, but you are right, it is probably a legal requirement. Whether it be kayak fishing, or anything else though, accomodating the "disabled" will always look like big $ ammenities for a minority of beneficiaries. There are simply fewer "diabled" people than not. Doesn't mean we shouldn't accomodate them. I know you didn't say we should ignore them, just saying that they will always be a minority that require something different. Different usually = $$.

The funding sources part kinda makes me laugh a little.

There are several organizations that I know of right off the top of my head that would bring the ADA requirements into play. As with many outdoor activities, many would if they could. Also, I think there is some legal requirements when spending tax dollars. They have a powerful - and worthy - lobby.

As I wrote before, trash cans require infrastructure (trucks to haul the trash, people to drive the trucks, people to empty the cans, dollars to buy the cans and build theft proof systems).

The more I look at it, there seems to be needs for two types of launches. Improved and Unimproved.

The Improved Type would have all of the stuff. Protected parking, fresh water, trash cans, ample launch room, rest rooms, etc. All of the goodies. Of course, these would likely be limited to places where park type infrastructure is already in place alongside the water.

The Unimproved type would simply be a hole in the mangroves with crushed shell or sand laid down that is wide enough for 2 - 3 kayaks at a time. Plus room for half a dozen vehicles (or more if the space is there). This would be simple access with parking, nothing else. Since a road would have to be nearby, a street light to illuminate the parking lot would be nice if electrical is available.

ChrisR wrote:
The funding sources part kinda makes me laugh a little.

In govt work, it is always the first question asked. Even if the cost is $100 per year, you have to be able to answer how it is to be paid.

All of this, even unimproved type launches, is on govt land. You really do have to play by their rules.

The other thing is seemingly ridiculous requirements. They closed some launches along the Gandy (I think it was the Gandy) under the premise that someone could drive off the road at speed and hit one of the parked kayak vehicles 100 feet off the road and the county would be held liable.

Rik wrote:

ChrisR wrote:
The funding sources part kinda makes me laugh a little.

In govt work, it is always the first question asked. Even if the cost is $100 per year, you have to be able to answer how it is to be paid.

Unfortunately I know it all too well....my line of work is in dealing with government contracts.........I think thats why it makes me laugh. It seems like a simple, harmless question, but it is usually much, MUCH bigger than that. Its almost like they are saying....."We are going to build you new launches.....all you have to do is plan it, and pay for it." Not trying to sound ungrateful, just makes me laugh... the way it all works. It's incredibly backasswards.

Rik wrote:The more I look at it, there seems to be needs for two types of launches. Improved and Unimproved.

The Unimproved type would simply be a hole in the mangroves with crushed shell or sand laid down that is wide enough for 2 - 3 kayaks at a time. Plus room for half a dozen vehicles (or more if the space is there). This would be simple access with parking, nothing else. Since a road would have to be nearby, a street light to illuminate the parking lot would be nice if electrical is available.

Excellent idea, but are "unimproved" access points even an option? Given the recent FWC input on this issue I'm wondering if gov't red tape would even allow such a thing (?). We may be discussing a moot point.

It's not a moot point. That is part of what we are discussing as a group. Figuring out more access and removing the complications.

What if (this is purely hypothetical at this point) I could convince a local fishing club to "adopt a launch" as Buc suggests above? We could volunteer some labor, a chainsaw and maybe even come up with a few cubic yards of crushed shell. All the FWC would have to do is give us approval, and we could handle the rest. Would something like that be an option? If not, what would it take?

That is something I'll get into our report. I liked Buc's suggestion and I think it is something that would work for funding.

As far as 'chainsaw and a few cubic yards of crushed shell', I'm guessing the location would first have to go through an approval process. Being the govt, I'm sure there are several dozen forms required. While you and I could make a suitable launch in an afternoon, the approving authority has to go through all the right of way approvals, environmental considerations and approvals and probably several more approvals that I'm not yet aware of.

We've been tasked not only with design but also with process suggestions. While it is easy to just write off any attempt as too much govt red tape, we're trying to work within the system to fix the system. There's a dozen or so from the no motor boating segment all over the state of Florida that attend full day quarterly meetings in an effort to voice our concerns and suggestions.

Honestly, all of the 'gubment' folks I've met in this process have been eager to hear what we have to say and seem very willing to put our suggestions (that make sense and are workable) to good benefit for the paddling community. They are, after all, users just like us.

Yeah Ric, the "KISS" principal works here.
1. Ample parking.
2. Firm but not too firm, gentle sloping launch.
3. Unimproved works for me.

Oh hell we've all thrown kayaks over gaurd rails and dragged them through mud. A spot doesn't need to be anything more than access to water. I'd prefer a hole in the mangroves with a spot for 3 or 4 cars. If everyone kept a trash bag in thier vehicle and wash thier yak at home Rik could get many more sites open for us. If I see a handicapped person I'll give them a hand. We fish out the most basic and simple crafts there are, why shouldn't our launches be the same.

shamus wrote:Oh hell we've all thrown kayaks over gaurd rails and dragged them through mud. A spot doesn't need to be anything more than access to water. I'd prefer a hole in the mangroves with a spot for 3 or 4 cars. If everyone kept a trash bag in thier vehicle and wash thier KAYAK at home Rik could get many more sites open for us. If I see a handicapped person I'll give them a hand. We fish out the most basic and simple crafts there are, why shouldn't our launches be the same.

I agree.

While it is nice to have luxuries where you can take a leak and have access to water to wash off your kayak, we don't need full flex restroom facilities that cost money to maintain and run the risk of getting vandalized by people. At the end of the day, all we need is an area for kayaks and canoes; not concrete ramps and fancy floating docks that cost money to install and maintain.

Alot of great lauching spots have been taken away by FDOT over the past 2 years as well and I doubt we will ever see them back again.